I have come to find I just don't enjoy Celestion Greenbacks. I put an actual Greenback in my ac10c and replaced it after a year for the retro 30 and I like it so there it stayed. These Greenback pair in my twin are labeled they are not actual Celestion Greenbacks but copies as they don't sound anything like others I have heard counting the 10" in my ac10 but either way I don't think I'll use them again.
Would something like the 12" Retro 30 and maybe an ET65 work? I also read that the green beret and veteran 30 work. I am lousy at describing sound but with my ac10 I having the closed back the Greenback was much to bass heavy and the upper mids or highs seemed thin and piercing. I could tweek it enough and I had a more of an issue with the lows than highs but the retro 30 sounded like a sure fit for me and it is. These copies in my Twin just sound awful. No clarity and seem weak, or lacking a full sound for two twelves. I mean I can get low end that's not flubbing but the mids and highs sound terrible. Not even bright or that classic vox tone/chime I could even achieve with a 10" Greenback on my ac10. I got that sound I liked without buying $300 blue speakers too and there is no way I would spend that on speakers, not even one. I recently re tubed it with all Tungsol hoping it would help but I notice no difference. When I did that on my ac10 it was night and day difference.
Any thoughts on a pair? Would the retro and et65 cause too much low end and become "farty" with no highs? Would a pair of green berets be better? Or will a mismatch better? This is my last resort before saving up for another amp and selling this so a few hundred dollars is something I would rather chance but I cannot afford to try each speaker obviously. My problem is mids and highs are difficult to describe for me because of my hearing so I lump them together but I will say I don't care for dark or warmer sounds I much prefer brighter sound and use my guitar knobs to handle anything too high. So my only experience with Warehouse is the retro 10" and I like it but I am going to assume the 12" in a different cab will differ and then which ever other I go with. Thank you ~Kevin
The Retro 30 is essentially a Ceramic Celestion Gold. It's not bass heavy at all, and is highly recommended for an AC type amp since the low end is tight and AC type amps have big meaty bass due to no global neg feedback. An ET65 would "tilt" the overall response a bit toward the lows. I don't think it's a bass heavy speaker, but it should fill in the mid bass without really adding any resonance "coloration". Sounds like a good plan if you think two Ret 30's might be too bright.
Tung Sol tubes are a good choice. You could try JJ's if you want tighter bass. JJ also make the EL844 which breaks up 20% more than their standard EL84, but I don't know how that compares to the Tung Sol EL84. Maybe just try one Ret 30 with one of your Greenback copies, and evaluate from there? Keep in mind that you need to be within ~20 degree on-axis of most 12" guitar speakers (within ~10d horizontal for two mounted horizontal) to hear the 4kHz+ detail. So, don't judge the high end without doing that.
Well I went with a different route. I took a shot on the alnico black & blue and I'm going to mix it with the 30 watt Reaper, both just arrived. I was not confident or comfortable spending almost $300 for the celestion blue since I haven't had luck in the less expensive ceramics. I have had luck with Warehouse so I went for it. I will update shorrly and also after a month or two qhen they should be warmed up a but. Thanks all.
Went the Brian May route (Blue and G12H30). My guess is the WGS B&B is a sweeter speaker than the Celestion Blue (less harsh 3~3.5kHz), and the Reaper 30 is probably more like a Pre Rola G12H30 than any current Celestion. Should be awesome.
"Went the Brian May route (Blue and G12H30). My guess is the WGS B&B is a sweeter speaker than the Celestion Blue (less harsh 3~3.5kHz), and the Reaper 30 is probably more like a Pre Rola G12H30 than any current Celestion. Should be awesome."
Yes, exactly!
One addition... I've done a lot of double-blind comparisons, and the 50-watt Blackhawk ALWAYS sounds better than the black and blue; they are exactly the same speaker except the BnB has the coil wound on a paper former and the Blackhawk is Kapton, the ever so slightly higher mass of the Kapton seems to make the top end (2-5K) silky smooth (even though the WGS BnB already IS a little smoother on top than the current production Celestion Blues).
For reference:
https://wgsusa.com/paper-or-plastic-great-kapton-vs-paper-voice-coil-for...
and
https://wgsusa.com/wgs-blackhawk-vs-black-blue-paper-vs-kapton
and
https://wgsusa.com/wgs-reaper-vs-reaper-hp